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Takket (20,549 posts)

Fri Oct 27, 2023, 07:00 PM

1 hr ago

0

Recommend Recommend this post

Possible solution to a government paralyzed by the right wing: A National Referendum

States have referendums. A way to change their Constitution when the politicians in charge won’t. At the Federal level, we have no such ability. Programs that are widely popular like gun background checks and giving women freedom to decide what to do with their bodies are often DOA at a right-wing SCOTUS and/or the filibuster rule in the Senate. To say nothing of amending the Constitution, which is nothing less than an impossibility in today’s political climate. What we need is the ability to take matters into our own hands. To be able to step in and do what the government won’t. For the majority to have their say when the minority makes it impossible to pass legislation. We need a national referendum. “But wait, there is no such thing in the Constitution. Doesn’t that mean we need to amend the Constitution?” Yes. “But, didn’t you just say that is an impossibility in today’s political climate?” Yes. I freely admit… this is not going to be easy. Or quick. It will take a LOT of effort, and the timespan for this is probably going to be measured in decades, not years. But I think it can be done. It is going to take a proposed Constitution amendment, passage in the Congress, and ratification by the states. “Why in the world would the GOP ever go along with such a thing? Did you see what just happened to them in Ohio? They were humiliated.” That’s certainly the problem isn’t it? The hard part is you have to convince GOP voters to put pressure on their elected officials to make this happen, or kick them out if they refuse. But that probably isn’t impossible… the GOP voter in many cases honestly believe that they are the party of the “majority” and Democrats only get elected because they cheat. I believe the idea of a national referendum would appeal to them because they would honestly believe they could have things “their way” if it were put to a national vote. I’ll use my home state of Michigan as an example. Here, like many places, the rethugs rigged the maps through gerrymandering so they would control the state government. In 2018, we got an “independent commission” for redrawing the maps on the ballot. It won in a LANDSLIDE. 61%-39%. For comparison’s sake, Gretchen Whitmer won the governor’s seat in 2018 53% to 44% So at least SOME of that support for the GOP gov candidate “flipped” and supported the independent commission. I can’t prove they weren’t all independents, but surely some GOP members had to “come along for the ride” to make that initiative pass so easily. They must have felt it would be better for their party, “because surely the Democrats only cheat in districting to win, so if we have an independent commission, that will make it better for the GOP!” Or maybe a certain few just didn’t like the cheating even if they knew it helped their side. Either way the Michigan vote and the recent Ohio vote just go to show they people want to have their voice heard, and they don’t like dirty tricks politicians do to keep people from having their voices heard. This will take a NATIONAL CAMPAIGN, and a LOT OF MONEY to happens. I think 20 years is optimistic. It needs to be portrayed as a chance to have your voice heard to cut the “red tape” and “gridlock” of Washington. As long as you don’t make it about a wedge issue (like codifying Roe into the Constitution), I think you can convince enough GOP voters to go along with this to reach that 60%-ish national popularity. But it is NOT going to happen with the current Senate (or House). McConnel and Cruz and the other nuts will see the writing on the wall and never go along with such an amendment. That’s where the decades come in. It means getting voters in red states to support the idea. And that means ADVERTISING, it means talking about it in the media all the time, it means FORCING it to be an issue in the primaries, until people start saying they will support it, and those people start getting elected. It needs to be a grass roots movement. It means voting in GOP primaries that allow it, to put a “pro-referendum” candidate over the top. I’m sure plenty of Democrats will be skeptical of it too. Changing the Constitution is a Herculean effort. Realistically if the House and Senate stay more or less 50/50 split, you only need to get 1/3 on the GOP caucus in each house to get on board to pass the amendment. But you still need ALL the Democrats too. It can be done, but that means YEARS of making this an issue for voters. No one ever dreamed the 13th amendment would get passed. It took a long time to get there, but it was passed. This will take planning as well. What will be the threshold to pass? How does it get on the ballot? Who gets to write the official language? How will we inform people what laws will be nullified by an Amendment? All worthy questions, that will need to be answered to get some people “on board”. Then it has to get passed by the states……. Which will take even more years. It will mean the same issue all over again. Making voters in red states “want it” enough to pressure their state legislatures to vote for it, or else vote in lawmakers that WILL vote for it. I have no delusions this will be easy. But I think it is a good idea. Look what happened in a fairly red state of Ohio. Voters want the ability to act when their elected officials won’t, and that crosses party lines, regardless of which party’s wishes will be more likely to be “fulfilled” by referendums. One major problem, I admit…. I have NO IDEA how to even start with this… should I suggest it to my Congresspersons??? Here’s an article…… https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/is-the-time-ripe-for-national-referendums-in-the-us-/46116612 California has a solution for America’s putrid populism and political paralysis on issues from abortion to voting rights to reducing greenhouse gases. That solution is adopting direct democracy at the national level—allowing Americans to vote, by referendum, on the biggest questions dividing the United States. Enacting such a change wouldn’t be terribly challenging or risky. All Congress would have to do is follow a series of practical steps offered by a Californian named John Matsusaka. I’m co-president of the annual Global Forum on Modern Direct Democracy, and have gotten to know Matsusaka, who is on the business and law faculties at the University of Southern California, because he knows more about direct democracy than any other American. For years, he has kept alive the Initiative & Referendum Institute, which tracks how American states and cities use the tools of direct democracy. Now, in a book titled Let the People Rule, Matsusaka is offering something that meticulous academics like him almost never provide: a clear and practical plan. In six steps, he shows how the U.S. could improve its republic by introducing direct democratic tools, beginning with non-binding referenda on major issues, legislative proposals, and treaties. His approach could be adopted easily, with little rancor and risk, and without the challenges of amending the US Constitution.

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Possible solution to a government paralyzed by the right wing: A National Referendum (Original Post)

Takket

1 hr ago

OP

National referenda are a terrible idea

Sympthsical

1 hr ago

#1

Sympthsical

(7,696 posts)

Takket (Original post)

Does the average American voter really need to be making policy? The author cites California, which is generally a good state all things considered. I live here. It's lovely. But our referendum system is trash. The kind of bullshit we end up voting for is unreal. And let's be honest, people will vote for crazy things out of self-interest as big money groups manipulate wording and advertising campaigns to make voting yes or no confusing. There's a reason property taxes are so low - we voted them for ourselves and then decided to never leave our homes. There have been actual times I'm filling out my ballot and reading and re-reading what the hell the proposition is and what voting yes or no actually means. I've had to go to my computer, because I had zero idea what the fuck I was voting for. On a national level? Nope. And the vast majority of voters aren't going to be as conscientious as I am about their ballots. And here's something else to chew on. If you give America as a whole an opportunity to vote on singular policies, you may not at all like what they have to say. California, that shining referendum beacon, voted down affirmative action - and hard - in 2020. Prop 13 where we just up and decided property taxes aren't really a thing as long as we don't move. LGBTers who still have PTSD over Prop 8. You'll win some, you'll lose some. But you really won't like the losses. And I think some of those losses will surprise people.

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Navigate. Friendly forums for passionate Dems · More than 90 million posts since 2001. Sign In. Latest Discussions. Greatest Discussions. Latest Videos. Latest Breaking News. The DU Lounge. Issue Forums. Culture Forums. Alliance Forums. Region Forums. Support Forums. Help & Search. Advanced Search. Latest Discussions. » » Possible solution to a go... Hide Ads. Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account. Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member. Hide Ads. Hide Ads. Related: Editorials & Other Articles , Issue Forums , Alliance Forums , Region Forums. Takket (20,549 posts) Fri Oct 27, 2023, 07:00 PM. 1 hr ago. 0. Recommend Recommend this post. Possible solution to a government paralyzed by the right wing: A National Referendum. States have referendums. A way to change their Constitution when the politicians in charge won’t. At the Federal level, we have no such ability. Programs that are widely popular like gun background checks and giving women freedom to decide what to do with their bodies are often DOA at a right-wing SCOTUS and/or the filibuster rule in the Senate. To say nothing of amending the Constitution, which is nothing less than an impossibility in today’s political climate. What we need is the ability to take matters into our own hands. To be able to step in and do what the government won’t. For the majority to have their say when the minority makes it impossible to pass legislation. We need a national referendum. “But wait, there is no such thing in the Constitution. Doesn’t that mean we need to amend the Constitution?” Yes. “But, didn’t you just say that is an impossibility in today’s political climate?” Yes. I freely admit… this is not going to be easy. Or quick. It will take a LOT of effort, and the timespan for this is probably going to be measured in decades, not years. But I think it can be done. It is going to take a proposed Constitution amendment, passage in the Congress, and ratification by the states. “Why in the world would the GOP ever go along with such a thing? Did you see what just happened to them in Ohio? They were humiliated.” That’s certainly the problem isn’t it? The hard part is you have to convince GOP voters to put pressure on their elected officials to make this happen, or kick them out if they refuse. But that probably isn’t impossible… the GOP voter in many cases honestly believe that they are the party of the “majority” and Democrats only get elected because they cheat. I believe the idea of a national referendum would appeal to them because they would honestly believe they could have things “their way” if it were put to a national vote. I’ll use my home state of Michigan as an example. Here, like many places, the rethugs rigged the maps through gerrymandering so they would control the state government. In 2018, we got an “independent commission” for redrawing the maps on the ballot. It won in a LANDSLIDE. 61%-39%. For comparison’s sake, Gretchen Whitmer won the governor’s seat in 2018 53% to 44% So at least SOME of that support for the GOP gov candidate “flipped” and supported the independent commission. I can’t prove they weren’t all independents, but surely some GOP members had to “come along for the ride” to make that initiative pass so easily. They must have felt it would be better for their party, “because surely the Democrats only cheat in districting to win, so if we have an independent commission, that will make it better for the GOP!” Or maybe a certain few just didn’t like the cheating even if they knew it helped their side. Either way the Michigan vote and the recent Ohio vote just go to show they people want to have their voice heard, and they don’t like dirty tricks politicians do to keep people from having their voices heard. This will take a NATIONAL CAMPAIGN, and a LOT OF MONEY to happens. I think 20 years is optimistic. It needs to be portrayed as a chance to have your voice heard to cut the “red tape” and “gridlock” of Washington. As long as you don’t make it about a wedge issue (like codifying Roe into the Constitution), I think you can convince enough GOP voters to go along with this to reach that 60%-ish national popularity. But it is NOT going to happen with the current Senate (or House). McConnel and Cruz and the other nuts will see the writing on the wall and never go along with such an amendment. That’s where the decades come in. It means getting voters in red states to support the idea. And that means ADVERTISING, it means talking about it in the media all the time, it means FORCING it to be an issue in the primaries, until people start saying they will support it, and those people start getting elected. It needs to be a grass roots movement. It means voting in GOP primaries that allow it, to put a “pro-referendum” candidate over the top. I’m sure plenty of Democrats will be skeptical of it too. Changing the Constitution is a Herculean effort. Realistically if the House and Senate stay more or less 50/50 split, you only need to get 1/3 on the GOP caucus in each house to get on board to pass the amendment. But you still need ALL the Democrats too. It can be done, but that means YEARS of making this an issue for voters. No one ever dreamed the 13th amendment would get passed. It took a long time to get there, but it was passed. This will take planning as well. What will be the threshold to pass? How does it get on the ballot? Who gets to write the official language? How will we inform people what laws will be nullified by an Amendment? All worthy questions, that will need to be answered to get some people “on board”. Then it has to get passed by the states……. Which will take even more years. It will mean the same issue all over again. Making voters in red states “want it” enough to pressure their state legislatures to vote for it, or else vote in lawmakers that WILL vote for it. I have no delusions this will be easy. But I think it is a good idea. Look what happened in a fairly red state of Ohio. Voters want the ability to act when their elected officials won’t, and that crosses party lines, regardless of which party’s wishes will be more likely to be “fulfilled” by referendums. One major problem, I admit…. I have NO IDEA how to even start with this… should I suggest it to my Congresspersons??? Here’s an article…… https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/politics/is-the-time-ripe-for-national-referendums-in-the-us-/46116612 California has a solution for America’s putrid populism and political paralysis on issues from abortion to voting rights to reducing greenhouse gases. That solution is adopting direct democracy at the national level—allowing Americans to vote, by referendum, on the biggest questions dividing the United States. Enacting such a change wouldn’t be terribly challenging or risky. All Congress would have to do is follow a series of practical steps offered by a Californian named John Matsusaka. I’m co-president of the annual Global Forum on Modern Direct Democracy, and have gotten to know Matsusaka, who is on the business and law faculties at the University of Southern California, because he knows more about direct democracy than any other American. For years, he has kept alive the Initiative & Referendum Institute, which tracks how American states and cities use the tools of direct democracy. Now, in a book titled Let the People Rule, Matsusaka is offering something that meticulous academics like him almost never provide: a clear and practical plan. In six steps, he shows how the U.S. could improve its republic by introducing direct democratic tools, beginning with non-binding referenda on major issues, legislative proposals, and treaties. His approach could be adopted easily, with little rancor and risk, and without the challenges of amending the US Constitution. Hide Ads. Info View thread info, including edit history Trash Put this thread in your Trash Can (My Stuff » Trash Can) Bookmark Add this thread to your Bookmarks (My Stuff » Bookmarks) 1 replies, 220 views. Share Get links to this post and/or share on social media Alert Alert this post for a rule violation Powers There are no powers you can use on this post. Edit Cannot edit other people's posts Reply Reply to this post. Edit Cannot edit other people's posts Rec (0) Reply Reply to this post. Hide Ads. 1 replies = new reply since forum marked as read. Highlight: None Don't highlight anything 5 newest Highlight 5 most recent replies Recommended Highlight replies with 5 or more recommendations. Possible solution to a government paralyzed by the right wing: A National Referendum (Original Post) Takket. 1 hr ago. OP. National referenda are a terrible idea. Sympthsical. 1 hr ago. #1. Sympthsical. (7,696 posts) Takket (Original post) Does the average American voter really need to be making policy? The author cites California, which is generally a good state all things considered. I live here. It's lovely. But our referendum system is trash. The kind of bullshit we end up voting for is unreal. And let's be honest, people will vote for crazy things out of self-interest as big money groups manipulate wording and advertising campaigns to make voting yes or no confusing. There's a reason property taxes are so low - we voted them for ourselves and then decided to never leave our homes. There have been actual times I'm filling out my ballot and reading and re-reading what the hell the proposition is and what voting yes or no actually means. I've had to go to my computer, because I had zero idea what the fuck I was voting for. On a national level? Nope. And the vast majority of voters aren't going to be as conscientious as I am about their ballots. And here's something else to chew on. If you give America as a whole an opportunity to vote on singular policies, you may not at all like what they have to say. California, that shining referendum beacon, voted down affirmative action - and hard - in 2020. Prop 13 where we just up and decided property taxes aren't really a thing as long as we don't move. LGBTers who still have PTSD over Prop 8. You'll win some, you'll lose some. But you really won't like the losses. And I think some of those losses will surprise people. Top Back to the top of the page Alert Alert this post for a rule violation Share Get links to this post Powers There are no powers you can use on this post. Edit Cannot edit other people's posts Recommend Recommend this post Reply Reply to this post. Reply to this discussion. https://pmatep5f7b.execute-api.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/ProdStage. Latest Discussions. » » Possible solution to a go... About. Copyright. Privacy. Terms of service. Contact. In Memoriam.